Ask the Expert: The Gold is in the Follow Up with Wanda Allen

Amplifyou Intro/Outro: 00:00:03

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Michelle Abraham: 00:00:44

Hello, hello amplify you Michelle Abraham, your host here stay. And guys, I've got a great ask the expert interview for you today, I brought on Wanda Allen. And we're gonna be talking all about follow up. In one day, we're gonna tell you more about one in a second. Let me just say hi to Wanda first. Hey, Wanda, how are you doing?

Wanda Allen: 00:01:03

Great. Thanks for having me.

Michelle Abraham: 00:01:04

You are so welcome. Well, I'm looking forward to following up with this. This topic because it's one of those those topics. I love the follow up. I mean, there's so much magic in the follow up. And there's so many people that don't ever follow up. And then there's so many people that follow up so well, that you know, so many times in I say yes. And it's like, oh, wow, good thing we followed up, because I would have forgotten about that. Right. It's so so let me tell our audience a little bit more about you. So Wanda is an international speaker, coach, corporate trainer, author, award winning business owner. She's the author of follow up savvy and follow up sales strategies. Wanda has had of 25 years of corporate career, where she held the position of Senior Vice President for 15 years to the sales background and worked with sales teams throughout her corporate career, she gained extensive training in business development, maintaining client relationships, customer service, and having a strong skill set for developing systems and applied skills to the follow up process. What she teaches is tried, tested and proven. After leaving corporate world to pursue her own business ventures, wonder folk found in her business, follow up sales strategies. She's an expert in helping entrepreneurs, business owners, sales professionals, increase pipelines, improve sales, performance, strengthen relationships by developing strong follow up skills. So, so great, because a lot of our podcasters are using their podcasts for their business, too. So some of the people that are having on on their show on people they want to follow up with afterwards. And in fact, one of my partners and I check enters in, we teach podcasting for partners, which is all about creating partnerships and collaborations and affiliates through following up with the people that you've had on your show. So I'd love for you to share with us some of your some of your best tips. And you know, why did you choose after all the things that you did in sales and all that? Why are you so passionate about the follow up? And it's one small piece of the whole puzzle? So I'd love to hear what your what your why your why is or what you do?

Wanda Allen: 00:03:05

Yeah, so when I was in the corporate world, and I took my first sales position, and I was in competition for a huge account, and I thought in there's two, two competitors in on the deal, and I thought, how can I stand out and be different, and I really say the sales process, and follow up, just jumped out at me, it grabbed me. And I thought that's how I can be different. And so I have a strong skill skill for creating systems. And I developed systems for following up on the prospecting side. And there's an extension of following up staying in touch known as relationship management. And so I created systems for that as well. And when my the bank, I was working, I was a banker that was acquired. I was the senior vice president, we were not the lead bank, you know how that story ends. And so a friend of mine said, You should speak on how you follow up. And I thought that was crazy. But what the heck did I have to lose? And so and I didn't know that I was doing I think that out of the ordinary. And I started speaking and I've learned very quickly that in general people really struggle in this area. And I thought hmm, maybe there's something here. And so you know, that was in 2009. So however years ago that was and it's just evolved into coaching and speaking and corporate work and writing books and so and I'm very passionate about it because it's such an area of trouble and struggle for so many people and if they would just follow up there's so much more business to be made.

Michelle Abraham: 00:04:45

Right there's so many different areas like you're thinking about some of our listeners right now like maybe that are like have like a business they have a program they go to networking events, they can be following up better there. They can be following up with leads they're getting, they can be following up with pockets interview Doing following up with people, when you're pitching yourself on package, there's so much follow up opportunity. How do you how do you orchestrate? Or how do you organize your follow ups?

Wanda Allen: 00:05:10

Well, the number one way to stay organized with it all is by using a CRM. Because if you're not using a CRM, it's just too difficult. You know, people are using pen and paper, sticky notes, their memory, their cell phone, I mean, the list, the list goes on and on. And that's, you're gonna be so scattered, and it's gonna be very difficult to stay on top of it. So a CRM is an absolute must,

Michelle Abraham: 00:05:38

is there a favorite one that you use or that you think is great?

Wanda Allen: 00:05:41

You know, I wish I could say this is one for everyone. But because we're all so different, there's hundreds and hundreds out there, your listeners, please don't think you have to make a big investment because you don't, they're so reasonable. Be careful with free, you know what you get for free. So people want to know what I use, it's less annoying, it's a funny name. And I'm gonna feel it's called

Michelle Abraham: 00:06:02

less annoying. Yeah. That's so fun.

Wanda Allen: 00:06:06

So I'm an affiliate, if any of your listeners look into it, just use my name, you'll get an extra free trial. But I don't care if you use less than knowing or not all I care about is that you get a CRM that you like, because if you don't like it, you're not going to use it. What are

Michelle Abraham: 00:06:21

the features you're looking for in the CRM, because there's so many like to choose from? That's a go down this rabbit hole, what CRM to use. But just like if you were to looking if you're looking for one for a small business solopreneur, who has you know, an under under under six figure kind of business? What kind of see or what kind of things on the CRM you're looking for?

Wanda Allen: 00:06:39

Well, less is more simpler is better. That's it, because if it's complex and complicated, you're not going to use it. And if you're not a techie, it's going to be overwhelming, and possibly intimidating.

Michelle Abraham: 00:06:54

Before you get it organized.

Wanda Allen: 00:06:56

Yeah, yeah. So that I mean, that's why I say less is more simpler is better if it just looks too complex and complicated. Move on. Look for another one. Yeah. And then like I say, They're not expensive, you know. So for the solopreneurs, in that it's very, very affordable. Like less annoying this $15 A month one five, you know, the pipe drive, I think they have a package for 1250. We're not talking a lot of money here. The more sophisticated it is, the higher the price point, but even the lower price by ones are very relevant and current. They're excellent.

Michelle Abraham: 00:07:30

Right? And so the things that you're looking for on there is like a way to input like their name and email address. And then is it like dates and notifications of like, when you set up like the cadence you want to follow up with someone on and then input deets, and then it would notify you and remind you kind of things that we're looking for. Yeah,

Wanda Allen: 00:07:48

yes, yes, you need to be reminded, you also need a place to have your notes. Because that way everything's centralized. And you're going to one place in one place only and not for different places. Trying to find information.

Michelle Abraham: 00:08:00

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Have things all over the place. So now I've heard now, I think was this this statistic out there that like the average person like buys on, like the seven touch point or something, and I know, we speak about this on our podcast, and he's like, Google Now came out with this, like 711 for formula where people need to have seven hours of your time over 11 touchpoints in four different locations. That's crazy, before they make a purchase now, so that just like reiterates how much the follow up is like so important.

Wanda Allen: 00:08:33

Yes. Yeah. I mean, what I the statistic that I go by is that 80% of sales are made between the fifth and 12th. Contact. Wow, that's pretty in line. You know, I'm sure that's very in line with Google statistics. Bottom line is it takes multiple follow ups most of the time to get to get the business, right. This statistic I heard also is only 2% of sales are made on the first contact. That means 98% of the time, you have to follow up.

Michelle Abraham: 00:09:07

Hmm, wow. And so what are some of the mistakes you're seeing people doing?

Wanda Allen: 00:09:12

For big mistake is they quit too soon. You know, they'll follow up once or twice, and the prospect doesn't respond, they drop it and go look for another one. And that, you know, you become hamster on a wheel when you do that. So quitting too soon, not making follow up a priority. It's got to be a top priority every working day. And the primary reason that people stay away from it, in my opinion, is because of fear. There's so much fear associated with following up which is a huge reason why people don't do it is that fear of rejection, fear of rejection, fear of being pushy, fear of being uncomfortable because it came from fear of not knowing what to say the beautiful skill and art of communication. It's getting lost. Because of the electronic way work, you know, are the predominant is that predominant means of communication is electronic. So, fear of appearing desperate, I mean, there's just so many fears that are associated with following up. So it's really getting, don't let the fear be on top of you, you know, get on top of it. And, and so that you will take the action you need to take to get more sales and grow your business and get to your dream and vision. Right? And

Michelle Abraham: 00:10:31

should we be automating our follow up? Well,

Wanda Allen: 00:10:35

that the the CRM automates who you need to follow up with and when, okay, but we are human beings. And so we do need that human interaction, you've got to create a relationship, you've got to develop it. And I believe that many people because there's so much fear around follow, they hide behind the electronic automated ways of following up, right? Because I believe the most effective tool we have is the one that use the lace and it's the phone for its originally to intended purpose, not for texting, emailing that because I can cover with you and a five minute conversation, what could take three emails in two days, right? There's a lot of fear around the phone for a variety of reasons. And so people don't use it. They don't use it. And they come up with all kinds of reasons why it's okay not to

Michelle Abraham: 00:11:36

write. I don't use it because I fear afraid of it. I was just afraid of like, oh, the random, crazy, weird call they get these days, you wouldn't be buying a vacation or winning something or like a next thing I know, I've like won the lottery, or my cousin's in jail or something like some weird thing? Like, I just don't ask any people I'm calling do?

Wanda Allen: 00:12:01

Yeah. Well, and I'll tell you, so a lot of people will say, well, nobody answers their phone. But that's not true. People do answer their phone. Yes, you get voicemail a lot. There's no denying that, that people do answer their phone. They really do.

Michelle Abraham: 00:12:19

Especially if they can recognize your number or like they see that it's like not a crazy number or

Wanda Allen: 00:12:24

something. Yeah, and you don't want even if they don't answer, leave a voicemail. And they'll call you back. Right? Hopefully, they don't, then you got to follow up again. Right? I said use it use electronic tools and means of communication as secondary, not primary.

Michelle Abraham: 00:12:42

I feel like you know, some other reason maybe why some people don't follow up more often. It's like, would who say after the second or third time, right? Like, hello? Is anyone there? He doesn't say, can you ask me please? Like, you know what? To be pushy or anything? So are there different things you see in the different emails, as you're going along through this follow up? Like five to 12? Because we might try to get to five to 12 emails? They're gonna be kind of short by now, I guess.

Wanda Allen: 00:13:10

Yeah. What would I say is be very clear about the intention of your follow up. And then that's going to guide you on what to say. Now, don't try to sugarcoat it, you know, dress it up dance around it, because that's when you're gonna get tongue tied and twisted, right? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there does come a point where you do start mixing it up. You know, one, like, if you're the 10th 1112, you know, you do mix it up, you start mixing it up a little bit. But, you know, my suggestion is, those first five follow ups are about getting the meeting booked or getting the business closed, like do not even consider quitting before five, like don't even consider.

Michelle Abraham: 00:13:53

Yeah, well, hello. I mean, just thinking about my inbox up until recently, it had like, 37,000 emails in it. And it was like things were getting lost in there, like very easily, like, where we google like, kind of shows things. And I'm seeing emails, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I never saw that one. Or I forgot about that one. I saw that creep in between calls. And then by the end of the day, I had forgotten to go back to it. So I, I definitely need people to follow up at least a couple times with me. So before before our answer. And it's not that I don't mean to it's just like so little time in the day when there's so much going on.

Wanda Allen: 00:14:28

Yeah, no, I agree. I and that's very common. And so the one that follows up is someone that's going to get the business, right, because if they didn't follow up with you, you would have forgotten about it or maybe remembered it two months from now and you're going to do that business with the next person you meet who provides that product or service and that initial person is going to lose out,

Michelle Abraham: 00:14:48

right? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that's a great Is there any tips that you have for us when we're doing your follow up that would make us help us stand out from maybe like as you mentioned, you are beat the competition that you were doing following up to get big business.

Wanda Allen: 00:15:04

This is gonna sound crazy, but just following up and out because people don't do it. You know, research at newer research is saying that 79% of people never follow up. And I think that's a very accurate statistic. So just by the the bar is so low today on so many levels customer service and following up that it really doesn't take much to stand out and doing what you say, when you do what you say you're going to do. And do it when you said you're going to do it. Right, that in itself is going to leave such a great professional impression. Because again, most people don't do it. Right. So it's not hard today. But we live in this crazed frenzy. And then technology has made it even crazier. It's like the latest, the greatest and you know, and I'm always like, let's just pull it back a little bit and get back to relationship management, human interaction. Technology's amazing. It's incredible. But it's not a be all and end. All

Michelle Abraham: 00:16:15

right, because back to those human touch in connection. So I have a question for you. But relationship management. So once you're in a relationship with someone, whether it's you, they've hired you to work with them, or you've finally got their attention, and you did a podcast interview something, what's like, a normal like, hated, so like, just touch base with people each year and be like, Hey, how are you doing? Or, you know, what's the what's a normal kind of cadence for that?

Wanda Allen: 00:16:39

You want to stay in touch a few times a year, because believe it or not, people will forget about you. And there was a study done that show, there's actually been two studies that came to the same result. If you don't communicate with somebody within five months, you lose 50% influence over that person. And five months goes by and the flash of an eye doesn't it? It, it goes in lightning speed. And so you need to make sure it's all of our own responsibility to make sure we're not forgotten about. And the only way you're not going to be forgotten about is by staying in touch. Regardless of how great you were how much they loved you. People forget.

Michelle Abraham: 00:17:24

True. It's true. Even if you go back to like, you know, pockets interviews earlier this year. It's like, oh, yeah, I love that person. I haven't talked to them. And since then, you know, yeah, that's amazing. There's, I think there's all sorts of great tools out there to stay in connection with people as certain cadences throughout the year. Like, I just think it just thinking of you card or something like that. Are there any tools that you use for that? Yeah,

Wanda Allen: 00:17:49

I use it Send Out Cards. It's a greeting card program. That's one tool that I use, I use the phone. So when am I

Michelle Abraham: 00:17:58

why? What is that thing again?

Wanda Allen: 00:18:02

newsletters, you know, maybe sending articles as you want it to be a mixed bag of goods, because if you're only staying in touch one way, it's going to become boring and ineffective. And the one way that people tend to only stay in touch is newsletters, right? You all you know, you get hit you have that person or those people that you only hear from via their newsletter and I'm not knocking newsletters, but I'm just saying yeah, yeah, gotta do more than that. Right? Yeah. On that person. Yes, that's true. But you know, you're not going to have real depth of relationship if that's the only way touch

Michelle Abraham: 00:18:41

one of the things I really love about the the center card thing is that you know, it's something physical in the mail and have a lot of clients that you send on cards was amazing I love I love like whole bunch of them right here like railway deaths, like like, you know, there's so many so much eat mail and when you know, you don't really get mail much anymore, so it's kind of cool to to do that. It's kind of nice to have the follow up. I got this great for those of you that are listening and not seeing him holding up a card right got where it was on a podcast recently, where you added my picture to their card and then just said like, thanks for being a great guest kind of follow up, which is great, cuz it was nice to have that you know, and now it sits on my desk and now I'm looking at it right so I'll remember that interview because I it was done in that way. I love it.

Wanda Allen: 00:19:30

Yeah, and I'm sure that really touched you in a way you know, and the thing is, it's a simple card that again, people don't do this because now there's eight cards and email and all this technology stuff but people open their mail. They look at it they open it and I used to say the only thing people getting their mail these days is bills and junk mail, but you can't even say bills anymore because bill pay. So

Michelle Abraham: 00:19:55

you really stand out when you get in the mail. Like wow, I got mail too. They,

Wanda Allen: 00:20:02

yeah. So So you know, life is progressing. And that's great. But you know, don't forget about the fundamentals. Yeah. It's some of the old school ways are really, really great mix it having that mixture of old school and most old school, new school. That's a beauty. I think, yeah,

Michelle Abraham: 00:20:20

I love it too. I feel like that's a really big sort of winning combination. My parents, like, my kids actually think I'm famous because it gets so much stuff in the mail. It's like, and people all over, like a lot of our clients or authors will send me books or anything. So my kids are one. Why are you thinking it's everyone's sending you stuff? So funny. But yeah, it's such a great, it's just, I mean, totally with you on that one, the technology is great, but also that human touch and that physical, physical, is also so great, as well. So wanted to before I let you go, this has been fantastic. Give us some great tips. Are there any last things that you'd like to share with our audience today,

Wanda Allen: 00:21:04

I would just really want to encourage your audience to commit, commit to this side of your responsibilities of your job. Because this is the work that's going to get you to where you want to be. And it comes down to commitment, I'm going to commit to overcome the fears. I'm going to commit to use a CRM, I'm going to commit to make it a priority. I'm going to commit to take care of my relationships. That's what it's about. It's not complicated. Okay? It's simple, simple means it's clear. And that's what it takes. It's not rocket science. It really isn't. And so that's, that's what I would like to leave with your listeners.

Michelle Abraham: 00:21:46

It's simple. I love it. And like you said before, it's a one thing it's like a one thing that you get to do and it's just the follow up and as some of our her podcast is no, I when I'm teaching about podcasts, guest bookings, and getting on shows I call it the big fu is it's like a big Fu. If you don't do the follow up yet. It's the acronym for follow up. So just leave you guys with that. Thank you so much wander for being with us today. Amplify you make sure you go out there and have a fabulous day and make sure you follow up.

Wanda Allen: 00:22:20

Right, thank you so much.

Michelle Abraham: 00:22:22

You're welcome. Take care everyone.