Behind the Mic with Susan Ney Host of HR Inside Out Podcast

Michelle Abraham: 00:00:03

This is amplify you the podcast about you discovering your message and broadcasting to the world. If you're a coach, author or speaker, you'll want to tune in. If you're looking for the best return on your time investment, to get your message out to the world in a bigger way, we're giving you full access behind the scenes look of how we're running our podcasts, how our clients have found success, and what you can do to launch your podcast today. The world needs your message. I'm Michelle Abraham, the host. Join my family as we unleash your unique genius and find the connections you need to launch your venture today. Join us and let's get amplified. Hello and welcome amplify you family. I'm Michelle Abraham, your host and I am here today with a really exciting interview. Behind the mic interview with one of our podcasters are new podcasters actually in the last few months, which is really great. So Susan, a welcome to the show. Everybody, Susan is the host of HR inside out demystifying HR and people management, which is really cool. It's been interesting to watch. Susan in this process. Let me tell you a little bit about Susan, her background is in HR. She's a people person, she's worked with people her whole life as a human resource professional. And she specialized in all aspects of employment, from hiring to retirement. So Susan is your go to person for all things HR. And so she got her start in as a national rep national representative for a large Canadian union. And then after pursuing her undergraduate degree in business, Susan transition to HR management, were you inspired to bring in both employee and the management prospects to your work perspectives to your work. So it's interesting, Susan Stewart just recently retired from your career in HR. And now you're where we originally met was in a book writing group, where I was Susan write her book for her here now her career book in HR, which is really cool. And it's just in Great to see you take this HR book that you did, which was called leadership inside out. So effecting change from within, which is so interesting. So I think that's a huge compilation of all your experience and what you've learned over the last few years, many years in the HR field that you're taking in, in this amazing book. So I think that's really cool. You hold a Master of Arts degree in leadership in training, and you're just an all around amazing person. So thank you, Susan, for being with us today. And I'm excited to dive into about your podcast and your book and all things, Susan.

Susan Ney: 00:02:35

Thank you. Wow. And thank you to you because yes, it was through Kim, Kim days wonderful course on writing and publishing that that we met. And I kept hearing you described as the guru of podcasts to meet this lady who is this crew of podcasts. So took your course. And I am absolutely loving, being able to take some of the learning not just from myself, but also from I call them my everyday heroes, other people in in human resources and leadership in all of the topics that but the nice thing about human resources is that you literally touch every aspect of people's lives. No, although in a corporate environment, it's from recruitment through to retirement. You know, everything that we deal with is so much a part of who we are, we take so much of who we are to our work environments. And so that enables me on the podcast to talk about just about everything.

Michelle Abraham: 00:03:42

I love that continue, there you go.

Unknown: 00:03:47

Yeah, so it's just been it's been so much fun. It's been a huge learning and a big stretch. And thank you to amplify you because your team has made it really easy. And it's just lovely to see such a professional product that's produced as a result of the good work that you do. Oh,

Michelle Abraham: 00:04:05

thank you. Yeah. And it's fun, it's fun. It's fun to color outside the lines. Haha, I love it. I was one of the things I remember you saying in our book writing course with Kim days that you wanted to color outside of the lines and I love I love that you're getting to do that because it's probably even your career has been very, like, you're restrictive as to things that you can do or say when the HR space so this kind of feels more free and finding sure and

Unknown: 00:04:33

it's interesting because you know, HR often gets a bad rap. You get into the the discipline or the you know, the profession with the intent of helping building. And, you know, in some organizations, I suspect that that's, that's more likely than the situations that I ended up in very traditional organizations with, you know, collective agreements and lots of rules. I worked primarily in the post secondary in the local government sectors. And so there wasn't that opportunity to, to build. And through the podcast, it's about, you know, taking the nuggets of learning and the wisdom, Steve Jobs says, No, it's not until you get to the end of your career and you've gotten these little dots throughout that you can actually take take a look back and see what they actually look like. Because they're quite different usually than when you when you first start out. And so it's having fun with those dots.

Michelle Abraham: 00:05:33

And, like collecting all this, like knowledge and expertise, and each step of the way each each a.on that map along your career to really like create this compilation of like, I consider your book like a masterpiece, it's a masterpiece of all the things you've learned over over your career, right?

Unknown: 00:05:52

Yeah, I think I've been working on the book for a long time. The challenge, you know, when you're working with an organization is I saw a lot of disengagement. And the statistics on any of the studies that have been done is that it's it's a, it's a critical concern. They're talking 75 85% of people are at least somewhat disengaged, and some quite devastatingly disengaged. And I see a lot of that as, as we have some control over, we have the opportunity to make different choices. And so the book actually is a compilation about my personal journey. And then the the journeys of many, many people that I've worked with, and, and been colleagues, you know, through my career, of just, we have within ourselves the capability of doing things differently. And so part two of the book is about that. Part Three is about what is leadership, because when I talk about leadership, it's the leadership within us leadership that we can exhibit on sports teams, on girl guy leaders, you know, and also within our organizations, and then talking about the application of that, the ripples, you know, of understanding, when we make different decisions, that it's gonna have ramifications, there's gonna be ripples, that understanding and dealing with those providing stories of people who have had, you know, really, you know, diverse circumstances that they've dealt with and have made choices notwithstanding or sometimes the choices haven't been their own, but they have recovered from those they've built resilience and, and become stronger. of taking care of ourselves through that journey. And then just weaving the tapestry and lots of great recommendations to other people's. Byron, Byron Katie's making sure that we're checking our assumptions, and Suze Casey's talking about reframe, you know, lots of other wonderful people out there who have got great books that you may not have the time to read, but some of those nuggets and encourages moving forth, are I speak up in leader leadership inside? Oh, yeah, that

Michelle Abraham: 00:08:04

sounds like a great book for new leaders that are emerging to, you know, you learn from the wisdom that you've cultivated in this in this book. Sounds like a great, kind of like a roadmap or some, you know, some sort of like manifesto for them to really grab hold of. So that's really exciting. So there's new leaders out there have something to, to look look forward to, to also the knowledge and the wisdom that you've gained in others that you've put this all together. I think that's amazing, right, from what you've learned, and others have learned too. So I'd love to know now what about with a book has the book in the podcast? How do they relate to each other? Or how do they all tie into each other?

Unknown: 00:08:44

Well, the podcast I actually just recorded, I've actually just read part of part two, man on insights from the Wizard of Oz. The book is not necessarily for everybody, it's a book that encourages reflection, and looking deep for them. And it's a lot of stories. And so you know, I'm taking the lessons from the Wizard of Oz. And, and so it's something that you can actually pick up and take a look inside and just look up a specific topic. But it's not like it's not a textbook read by any by any means. And so really the leadership inside out effecting change from within. And when I'm encouraging in the demystifying human resources and people management, it's really the same stuff. And it's interesting, because using HR people, so many people think so negatively of human resources, that I'm almost wondering whether I should have titled that differently. Because this is really about both the podcast down the book are really about encouraging that we we present the very best version that we're capable of presenting ourselves, and that there's lots that have gone before us who can help on that journey. I encourage people to dare to soar and that I really believe that we can Right, and we just need that encouragement. So they're both kind of along the same lines. And as I say, I, through the podcast, I have the opportunity of bringing in guest speakers just interviewed john Israel. And so he'll be coming up on the May 17. podcast and lots of other really fascinating. And I've already interviewed really fascinating people, people just want to take a look on my website, or on their favorite podcast format.

Michelle Abraham: 00:10:29

Yeah, you know, it's to now going back to john Izzo, he is a he's someone that you really looked up to like as a mentor. And so tell us about that experience. Because I think as for a podcast, or listening to this, it's like, that is something that a podcast allows you to do reach out to someone who is your mentor, who you would not maybe have any other opportunity to have a conversation with. He's an author, he's someone you've looked up to, you've taken his courses, you've been in his book club, you were able to reach out to him and have him on your interview. So I interviewed him on your podcast. So was that what was that process? Like? Did you just send an email? And they said, Yes.

Unknown: 00:11:05

Really scary. And that's, that's what's so cool is the the ability for us to stretch and learn. Yeah, and to be anxious that doesn't ever stop. So I reached out to his, his wonderful assistant, and asked whether she thought he would even consider doing that. And she said, Yes, I think so. And then checking to make sure that I wasn't going to get to know her whopping large bill. Because we don't know, right, it's important to ask those questions. And then creating a script and giving more for me, john doesn't need a script by any means. But how wonderful, because this is a man who his book, way back when, at least 20 years ago, was baring your soul to work. And it's, it's those kinds of it's like, this is the work that we're doing as podcasters. And as authors, that he planted seeds inside me about what it would what it would feel like to actually bring my soul to work. And and he actually talked in the podcast about the last, the last book, he's just written the purpose revolution. They're almost like bookends, because it's, again, about bringing your soul to work. It's about, you know, what is your personal purpose? And what is, you know, making sure that's in alignment with the purpose, and the values of the organization that you're providing your talents to? And he said, You know, I may never write again, which I hope, I hope is not the case. But how important it is. And I don't know that he has any sense of the impact that he had on me know, many years ago, and how that has informed who I am. Who I've been as a as a HR practitioner, who I've been, hopefully as a mom, friend. And so it is just so what it where else what I've had that opportunity to have an hour of this renowned authors time to be able to give it to the listeners.

Michelle Abraham: 00:13:08

Yeah, one of your heroes, like, get to get to spend an hour with one of your heroes. How cool is that? Yeah, just so cool. So cool. That's amazing. Yeah, I remember when his book came out, it was quite a while ago. And it was, it was one of the first kind of books in that space, to kind of talk about your soul. And that purpose, I remember, there was quite a lot of publicity around that book when it came out. And yeah, that's, that's amazing how when you book a book, and how that was impacting you, and like, the way you ignites, it's ignite something obviously ignited something inside of you that you've carried through your career. And it's interesting how, if everyone could do that, just what a different workplace or work environments we would have, everyone was aligned value wise with the organization they worked with. And I think Firstly, it has to come back to us and like with our aligning our own values first and making sure that we we know what they are, and can and then can seek out an organization that fits those values.

Unknown: 00:14:12

And that's going to happen, and I think, especially with the newer generations are demanding that Yeah, you know, whereas the baby boomer I, you know, my my life lessons were, you know, Susan, you know, get a job in a, you know, an organization that you can spend your entire life in, and you're going to get a pension and benefits and all the rest of it and we weren't encouraged to but is that what I need? Is that what this individual means, you know, do I need that security? Or do I need something that's more free spirited? And I think in our schools too, these days with cancer and being encouraged to journal and to have these, we as parents are having these broader conversations with our kids. So it's it can't not have an impact on our organizations. I just hope it happens.

Michelle Abraham: 00:15:00

Yeah, I was hearing I was hearing someone else in an interview was now I think it was, oh my gosh, it's gonna I think it was I think it was Seth Godin, who was talking about how our schools were designed to create really great workers, because they're the obedient to teaching them. And, you know, being among the, you know, is learning in, in an environment because the environment you're creating was really great for workers. But things are changed so much in our world that that no longer is working for them as a learning environments no longer working for the organization is required for those things like, like early retirement and, and benefits and things that were really good bribery. Like a while ago, we aren't necessarily working or so we have to look at a whole this whole world is in a different way. And I think this year, I'd have any any years in the past has really brought that to the forefront of everyone's attention.

Unknown: 00:15:53

Well, it's interesting, because I'm involved in a dialogue group out of Scotland, and I'll be interviewing Dr. Keith Dietz, who his whole doctoral dissertation was on his own personal journey, you know, all of those cultural societal lessons that were just so not him, and how, you know, as leaders, we need to become much more self aware, and his journey. And so I'll be interviewing him about that, and how he's created, you know, a better way for organizations to be working with a team that actually gets the work of the organization done. So yeah, you know, even though that that model has been the model that we all went to school with, right, and it's never worked for everybody, you know, it just assumed that everybody had the same learning style. And, you know, we're gradually changing that, it's gonna go, it's gonna change faster than it is. Yeah, yeah, I

Michelle Abraham: 00:16:54

always had this conversation with a friend yesterday about the the medical system to where they really need this inspiring middle management, because they're, everyone's going on to all upper management's going on stress leaves, and then the middle of management's left to deal with everything. And you know, that in Spain, we can inspire our teams to work together as a team, and just like, what a different in some, I think some industries really need this really quickly. You know, and I'm not any expert on any of this, but that's kind of what I've been hearing and seeing, I'm not involved in, in a we're in an environment, in a corporation, I think like that. So, but that's kind of what I've heard from people who are and I think that's kind of scary.

Unknown: 00:17:39

So as individuals, you know, as, as, for every person who chooses to learn how to do things differently, you know, that's what I'm encouraging, of looking within themselves to be their very best, we influence every one of us, you know, we end up changing the culture, because of the way we approach the way we learn how to question with more curiosity. So that, you know, hopefully, the defensiveness comes down of people seeing what an impact that can have. And slowly, you know, if every one of us just did a little bit and did something just a little bit different. Now, the book atomic habits, it's like, small changes, and everyone's capable of small changes. And that's, you know, I love baby steps. It's like anything, you move forward by taking baby steps and those baby steps and the more people that go, Hmm, well, I like that, you know, just coming and and just being calmer, you know, of just learning better stress management techniques. And so you come to the work environment, and you're feeling calmer, and then that caught then then it's people are calm, calmer, and they like hanging around with you, because you're, you know, and so on, and so on, and so on. And there's a ripple effect. And so I'm going to create some tsunamis over time, hopefully. Yeah. So I'm, I'm calling I'm comfortable with it just being waves at this point.

Michelle Abraham: 00:19:07

Can we just hear a tsunami? So one of the things that you've done in and you've kind of, you've promised funding your podcast, so I want to talk about that a little bit. What does that mean to you? And like, how is that how's that exploiting your podcasts?

Unknown: 00:19:23

Someone's through the stories I know in the recruitment story of sharing the resume that we received when I was at bcit on a pop camp now this was a graphic artists that were very difficult to file in our the fella who felt it was appropriate to come into the interview, literally sit at the head of the table, put his feet on the table, lean back and say, I'm ready are you? understandably he didn't get the job. And just the people that we're bringing in the the laughter at ourselves, you know, the oopsies that, you know, it's it's what has happened, what have we learned from them? What are we going to do differently going forward? How can some funded ourselves bringing in some really interesting people. I haven't talked to him yet, but I know somebody who did sound mixing in the in the movie industry, I'm really hoping I can bring him in and just about the opportunity to learn a little bit about careers that people may not have contemplated considering. My good friend, retired has become a vet assistant and her eyes literally sparkle. This lady is just so happy with her new career. And so bringing people in from a tugboat operator, again, I haven't asked whether he'd be prepared to do that. Some occupations that are things that most of us wouldn't have considered. Yes, having some fun with that having some fun, little serious, you know, although we'll talk about serious topics like conflict resolution and polishing our communication skills.

Michelle Abraham: 00:20:57

It's been the most fun part about having a podcast for you as the host.

Unknown: 00:21:02

Yeah, well, and then the fun part of, you know, where else would you get an hour with someone like john is Oh, yeah. You know, and hopefully others, I'll be able to encourage to come and talk to the listeners,

Michelle Abraham: 00:21:16

how we can see why so many of our clients fall in love with this podcasting. It's like such a, it's a fun, it's really fun way of engaging with other people in a different way than normally normally engage on a regular day to day basis. And so a lot of our clients say, their most favorite thing they do in their week. Have you fallen in love When we got in the podcasting bug season? Yeah. And what's lovely is that because it's you know, it's

Unknown: 00:21:41

so accessible, you can go out for a walk, and plug in and learn, you know, you've got a podcast Connect,

Michelle Abraham: 00:21:48

I probably got the name wrong. Connecting cloud, right? Yeah.

Unknown: 00:21:52

Yeah. wonderful opportunity. And, you know, we all encouraged each other on the podcast connect to go when and listen to each other's and I did. Yeah. And it was fascinating. There's topics that I had not even thought might be of interest in. So one more supporting one another by encouraging one another, but yeah, it's just, you know, here, with a zoom call, you've got to set them you got to be in front of your computer. But my goodness, we need to be outside and getting some fresh air. So just, you know, take your iPhone and plug in and listen to all sorts of wonderful stuff.

Michelle Abraham: 00:22:29

Absolutely. My brother and I thought this Mother's Day, it would be a really fun idea to make a private audio podcast for our mom because she, her siblings are getting older. And she you know, she loves her grandkids, but she's always watching or listening to podcasts were like, how cool would be to have her own like family podcast. So we haven't interviewed everybody. And yeah, so we're recording this episode before Mother's Day. It's going to be coming after Mother's Day. But it's a really exciting, I'm excited to see what her reaction is going to be.

Unknown: 00:22:59

Oh, that is so lovely. I just, I know how wonderful it's been to get an entire family worldwide. together for my mom's 85th birthday. Oh, that's so? Yeah, so some of this technology and, you know, how we've been learning and COVID? to do things differently?

Michelle Abraham: 00:23:16

Absolutely, yeah, we're so lucky with the technology we have now that we the opportunities that we have to connect with people, you know, just outside of our normal way of connecting, I think it's been you know, it's it's a widen and broaden their horizons in our networks, globally, which is so much fun. So Susan, do you find that you're, you're doing, you're cheating, you're talking about HR and the way that you're talking about, you know, managing people from within your it is global conversation. It's not just a North American conversation, which I think is perfect for the book in the podcast platform. So tell us a little bit about your goal with it. So what do you hope to inspire from doing there having your book and your podcast?

Unknown: 00:24:03

I think by encouraging people to not be the victim, I just like go back to that both the book and the podcast. You know, it's like employee engagement. You know, what can you do to become more engaged? And not, you know, to, to not look at your circumstances as being done to, but what might I be contributing to this, that could change my experience? And so, I think my hope is that people take a moment and reflect upon what they're contributing to their circumstances. And, you know, I talk about leadership, I talk about HR, but really, this is this is about life. And when we do that, in a when we take that time and do that reflection and think, you know, maybe if I come to work grumpy, then everybody else is going to be grumpy to maybe if I come to work, Not grumpy, that's kind of have an impact. That's going to create change in our world. And I know it takes effort and energy, because when you're feeling in the doldrums, it's sometimes hard to pull out of that. And so the encouragement is, you know, where are your fans? You know, who are the people that the the friends that, you know, love you to bits, and are always going to be there for you, you know, lean where you need to lean, you know, don't be afraid to reach out to resources to friends, to talk to people, like, you know, maybe I can get people engaging in different conversations. And yeah, that's about it. I guess it's a little bit about creating those ripples ripples that, that, in my experience, we don't have some of those conversations often enough. And I think they could be really beneficial. So I'm hoping I can create those conversations.

Michelle Abraham: 00:26:00

For sure. Yeah, we did something interesting with our team meeting this week, where we're on zoom, and we haven't even ever met most of the people on our team. In person, because of the growth The world is these days. So we did this, like, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself kind of like, what was your rose, what's your Thorn, and something personal, so like, you know, we got to know each other a little bit better. And it's something that I was realizing we were coming to our team meetings, and we're just talking business by, you know, as our team is growing, I think it's really important. We don't have those cooler talks anymore, those lunch times to sit together. So we need to find some way to get to know each other and connect with each other on a personal basis, too. So I love it. Yeah, so it was really fun. Actually, we were all laughing the whole time. So it was it was good. It was a really good experience, I think for our team. So Susan, as our listeners are a lot of people are leaders, or emerging leaders or coaches, authors, speakers, what are a couple of pieces of advice you can leave us with for our emerging leaders today?

Unknown: 00:27:03

Stay curious. Just you know, it's interesting, I've been helping with a Kaplan University course. And, you know, so many of the different scenarios that we've looked at, it's about pupil management and in local government, and, you know, the scenarios that we're looking at, it's, you know, and what else? And what else to dig deeper, you know, what might be going on? And, and we're so fast to just jump on to the surface information that we have, and we don't question our assumptions. So I think that's really important. I think lifelong learning is critical. You know, our world is changing so quickly. And the only way that you can keep up is just by just, you know, being flexible. By connecting with people. Yeah, and being self aware, like really, really taking some wheat. In all the years that I worked, I think the worst thing that happened is that no one we we weren't given and we didn't take the time to step back. And even observe how coworkers were doing. You know, where somebody would just all of a sudden be presenting as grumpy. It's like, What's going on with you? You know, and if somebody had just taken a moment and said, Are you okay? You know, that that human because we're human beings we're not, we're not robots that

Michelle Abraham: 00:28:26

have feelings in their human connection again,

Unknown: 00:28:29

now, there's stuff that goes on at home that, you know, it's the old role was just leave, you know, Leave it, leave it at the door doesn't belong here. We can't do that.

Michelle Abraham: 00:28:38

You know, I'm assuming hours of your day I work. It's hard to differentiate the two.

Unknown: 00:28:45

Well, especially right now. But you know, if you've got something going on with your kid, I know I'm a parent. You know, that that, that doesn't just leave you when you walk into the office door. So just I think remembering that. Yeah. And then learning from each other.

Michelle Abraham: 00:29:02

Yeah, and I love what you said the Curiosity you lead with that curiosity. That's really great. The self awareness so powerful,

Unknown: 00:29:10

man, don't be don't beat yourself up either. He's so we're so incredibly hard on ourselves. It's like, Oh, goodness, take a breather.

Michelle Abraham: 00:29:19

Yeah, he can't be perfect right out of the gates. Get what you got to do some of that personal development. So like, growth. And now just just the stakes, right, or best learning.

Unknown: 00:29:28

learn from our mistakes. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's how, you know how most of I know when I look back on my career, my biggest learning was the most difficult situations that I ended up in the hardest organizations. When I look back and go boy, if I hadn't had that, then it's just that it was about growing from it. Not not becoming the thought that Oh, my goodness that I'm the victim and this look what happened to me but just, you know, knowing that something perhaps wasn't a fit anymore. And being prepared to move on, make the leap.

Michelle Abraham: 00:30:03

And yeah, I think that being flexible and moving on and knowing when it's time to move on to is so much more, has seems to be more of a thing now that it's permission, we feel like we have permission to do that, like you don't need to stay in the same career, your whole life and you can move on in and change and grow with when you grow as a person. I mean, that's really natural to evolve as a person in evolving careers, too. I think. That's it's and that's one of the great things right now that the opportunity is out there. And, Susan, I just want to thank you so much for spending this time with us. It's been so you're welcome. It's so great to connect with you over your podcast. I'm so thrilled that you've launched it. And for anyone who wants to check out Susan's book, his leadership inside out, effecting change within Where are you selling your book? Where

Unknown: 00:30:51

can we find on Amazon? On the amazon.ca.uk.com? Perfect,

Michelle Abraham: 00:30:57

go check it out there. And then on all your favorite podcasting apps, make sure you go check out her her awesome Podcast Series HR insight out demystifying HR and people management, which I love that name of that. Such an awesome title.

Unknown: 00:31:14

And for anybody who's ever been curious, oh my goodness, be in touch with Michelle. Her podcast course is fabulous. And it's so much fun.

Michelle Abraham: 00:31:25

Oh, thank you. It's because we have fun people in it. That's awesome.